UNC-Chapel Hill’s Inpatient Eating Disorder Unit is located at UNC Medical Center in Chapel Hill. It treats adolescents and young adults ages 13-25. Occasionally they will take someone a bit younger or a bit older.
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Has someone been to UNC’s program in the last year or so? Do they take adults? Does anyone know what their waitlist might be? I am an older adult looking for medical stabilization.
can someone please give a more detailed review of the program/hospital here?
how long is the program??? I’ve been here before and got out in 2 weeks. I’m not looking to go residential I just need stabilization and then I’m fine.
Any recent reviews on UNC? Does anyone know if they have availability?
I was there in 2020 for a brief stabilization stay before going to a regular IP program. It saved my life. It’s the place where I felt the most respected and listened to, where my wishes were actually adhered to, and they supported me in my goals (rather than make their own). It was extremely challenging and it’s a very clinical hospital setting but that’s to be expected. I highly recommend it to anyone who’s too medically compromised to go to a regular program.
I used to hate this place with a passion, Now that I’ve been to a couple treatment facilities this one is one of the best. I don’t want to sugarcoat this place because it does have a lot of cons. They don’t really care about your mental health, the goal at UNC is to get you to a healthy weight (You may have to go somewhere else outpatient) The doctors change every couple of weeks, some are better than others but nonetheless they are there to listen to what you have to say (most of the time). The staff/Nurses are hit or miss. You will find some nurses that you will not like but there will be 1-2 nurses you will probably get along with. You will be able to call your parents, family and friends while you are here. In a couple of places I’ve been to they are strict about phone time but here you can almost call whenever you want. You will most likely have 3meals and 2 snacks, Sometimes you will get 3 snacks (it depends on the person) The dietician or your parents will plan out your meals if you are under 18. You will have groups everyday, even on the weekends. Weekends were pretty chill and were usually when families came to visit. I honestly preferred weekends but most people would get really sick of them because you have ALOT of free time. You have no access to technology and depending on the nurses you will be able to color, read and do things you enjoy. You do a have a TV tho. Another con is that you have to be watched/observed while in the restroom. You can’t be in the restroom without supervision unless you are showering. That’s mostly all you have to know about your stay here. I wish you the best 🙂
I have some mixed feelings about it but it did help me a lot. I was there for three weeks before transferring to a residential program and I honestly don’t think I would have recovered without it. It was not easy, and I had a really difficult time. However, this is unfortunately to be expected of any eating disorder program and this IS the best one I know of. Honestly the hardest part was the waitlist; I had to wait 2 months to get in while worsening in my condition. Your recovery depends a lot on you and the other patients; I was the oldest in my group and felt like I had to keep a positive “recovery face” on to help the other kids in the program move forward even though I had many doubts myself. It can be scary but it saved my life. Do not let other people’s experiences prevent you from getting treatment, because a lot of your journey is going to be determined by you. More strict than a res program but for me it was definitely what I needed, if you don’t have the willpower to choose recovery for yourself yet it can really help to be put in this situation where you really have no choice but to get better. While I had negative experiences it was a whole lot of good and if you have a good group can even be comforting at times. I recommend this program, I won’t sugarcoat it because it’s not perfect but it has done a lot of good for me and I hope it can for you too.
I’ve been in treatment before, and UNC was single handedly the most traumatic experience I had. I came here from the hospital and honestly preferred the hospital. From the moment I entered the unit, I felt like a prisoner. Every single personal belonging was taken from me while I was hysterically crying. The staff is so cold and could not care less about your mental state, just how fast you’re gaining weight. The groups were mostly just coloring and nothing substantial that would actually help. We basically just sat around waiting to eat. Since the phones are in the common space, we could all hear each others conversations and 99% of all our phone calls were crying to our parents about how awful it was. Staff didn’t care and strictly enforced the 15 min time limit even when patients were clearly emotional on the phone. I called my parents everyday begging to let me go home, even though I am an adult, but even their hands were tied. UNC would not let me leave. Luckily I got a spot at a treatment center that saved my life, but I am still struggling with the effects that UNC center for “excellence” had on me mentally. My current outpatient dietician has informed me that she’s has two other clients admit to trauma they have experienced here and well as similar stories from other professionals in the field and even an intern that once worked on the unit. Please, please find another treatment option if you can.
You WILL be okay here! I remember reading this and being terrified and yes it’s scary but they are here to help you and they will help you. Staff is all so nice you will be okay
it’s a very strict place to be, it has changed a lot in the past couple of years but i think it’s okay if you really need help. Due to covid it’s been very strict and can’t really do anything. it’s very boring and hard sometimes but after all it does help somewhat
**Cross-posted by Admin from General Forum**
Trying to look into potential treatment options near North Carolina – both Veritas and UNC Chapel Hill are close to me – wondering if anyone has recent reviews of either program with COVID restrictions or would recommend one over the other? I am very apprehensive about seeking longer-term treatment however, as I have been in the past and it has been a very negative, toxic experience that I don’t want to repeat. However, I’m currently in the hospital right now and want to be realistic about what next steps will set me up for greatest success. Willing to consider or look into any and all options, just really want the best chance at full recovery (don’t we all!). Thank you in advance for any help!
Does anyone have any recent reviews? Any information about changes during COVID?
Preface: I was an adolescent during my three stays but will say that there are usually several adults there. Adults who try to discharge themselves AMA are likely to be put under a 30-60 day IVC by the attending if they are not stable or have a lower BMI. UNC has undergone MAJOR changes over the past 1-1.5 years and have removed pens, pencils, puzzles, board games, markers, clocks, whit boards, art on the walls and other things from the unit. Groups are flakey because they are run by masters students at UNC so prepare to just wait around to eat. I would highly recommend attending a different program IF you are medically stable. If you ONLY need medical stabilization UNC is an option, just don’t expect a lot of therapy or therapeutic help at all. If you are an adolescent you will NOT be involved in your treatment. Your parents will meal plan for you and you will rarely be informed of anything, often being sent to residential after a long stay at UNC. I highly recommend looking at other inpatient programs if you can!!
When were you there?
2015, March-May 2019 and Feb- March 2020
How many patients on average?
There are 6 beds and they are typically all full
Does it treat both males and females? If so, is treatment separate or combined?
It does treat both genders however there are rarely males. If so, they may sleep on adolescent psych (right next door) or have a room too themself. Treatment is combined.
How often do you see a medical doctor, psychiatrist, psychologist (therapist), nutritionist, etc?
You see the medical doctor everyday in the morning (attending and resident), there is no psychiatrist, you see your therapist twice a week (however it is flexible as the the therapists are actually UNC students) and the dietician comes upstairs for meal planning for adults every. morning Monday-Friday so you can talk to her then but she rarely meets with adolescents alone.
What is the staff ratio to patients?
There are two nurses and one NA per 6 patients. There are no BHTs/MHTs
What sort of therapies are used? (DBT, CBT, EMDR) etc?
ACT, CBT, DBT, RT and OT
What were meals like?
Meals are 45 minutes and snacks are 20 minutes long. There is little to no conversation at the table and rarely does anyone want to play a game. There is one nurse at the head of the table and the NA sits at the other end to correct behaviors or prompt eating.
What sorts of food were available or served?
Meals are chosen from a hospital menu and there are a variety of entrees and side items. Some examples are eggs (scrambled, hard boiled, omelettes), cereal, bagels, English muffins, toast, danishes, oatmeal, fruit, yogurt, milk, soy milk, juice, etc for breakfast. Lunch and dinners are the same options- bean, rice and cheese bowls, sandwiches, grilled tofu, chicken, rice, mashed potato, pizza, subs, soups, ice cream, cookies, quesadillas, beans, cheeseburgers, carrots, broccoli, green beans, etc. Snacks are chosen and last for three-four days and then are changed. Options are yogurt, milk, fruits, cereal, pretzels, crackers, peanut butter, granola, cookies, croissants, etc. Everything is based off EXCHANGES and meals and snacks are very individualized. You meal plan for one to two days at a time and as long as you meet your meal plan you are fine. You can’t repeat items too much and you can only have two write ins a day. Entrees offered per day vary slightly on the menus.
Did they supplement? How did that system work?
They do supplement with Ensure Plus based off the exchanges you did not complete. If you didn’t eat a starch they would give you more ensure than if you didn’t complete a vegetable which is the only perk of the program. Basically, supplement is measured in milliliters and based off calories.
What is the policy of not complying with meals?
If you don’t complete ONCE, they call the doctor and you are immediately tubed.
Are you able to be a vegetarian?
Yes
What privileges are allowed?
They allow two one hour each passes per week but you have to apply for them and must stay within the hospital. After your first week you can go outside once for about ten minutes on Saturday and a twenty five minute chapel service in the hospital on Sunday.
Does it work on a level system?
You get a sheet with your levels for medical status, social, participation and meal completion/behaviors every Thursday after team. This only matters for passes.
How do you earn privileges?
Participate in the groups, limit behaviors, eat 100% without supplement.
What sort of groups do they have?
DBT, CBT and ACT which are a joke because they are run by students and NOBODY talks. RT and OT where you basically just do art projects, color or play a board game and cooking group once a week.
What was your favorite group?
They were all terrible. Maybe cooking group because you actually DID something.
What did you like the most?
Nothing except being able to meal plan.
What did you like the least?
Little to no freedom, incredibly fast weight gain, its run by students and a resident so you feel like a guinea pig, no exercise or activity whatsoever, meals and snacks are extremely awkward, no pens, pencils, art supplies, etc on the unit, they WILL take your journal and read it/ take it away if they suspect you are writing down what you are eating, no privacy, labs everyday for at least two weeks, terrible groups that often are cancelled.
Would you recommend this program?
Not unless you JUST need medical stabilization.
What level of activity or exercise was allowed?
None
What did people do on weekends?
Nothing except journal or read. Theres no puzzles, art or anything allowed since last year.
Do you get to know your weight?
Adults do twice a week, not adolescents.
How fast is the weight gain process?
3-4 lbs a week or 2-4 kgs
What was the average length of stay?
It’s based off % of IBW so once you hit 85% you can usually be discharged to either RES or OP.
What was the average age range?
13-30
How do visits/phone calls work?
There are two wall phones that are available all day unless there is a group or meal/ snack. 15 minute limits per call.
What is the electronics policy? (ex: cell phones, iPods, Kindle, laptop, tablets)
No electronics whatsoever except 30 minutes a few times a week on the laptop (monitored) for email, school, etc.
Are you able to go out on passes?
Maximum twice a week for one hour each (has to be for a meal or snack though) and MUST stay on hospital grounds.
What kind of aftercare do they provide? Do they help you set up an outpatient treatment team?
Either refer you to residential or you go to outpatient. The social worker WILL try to convince you to go to residential and will push parents to send you.
After lots of research, it looks like I will soon be getting on the waitlist here, UNC CEED. I’m one of those “chronic, severe cases” with many hospitals and treatment centers behind me by my late twenties.
But UNC seems very experienced with such heartbroken, tired sufferers–and they DO do single case agreements with Virginia Medicaid, FYI, and Anthem as your MCO (Managed Care Organization), so I’m in luck there.
For the record, the admissions contact says the age range is teens through mid-thirties.
It is a medical stabilization unit only, strictly inpatient, after which you step down to either Day/PHP, IOP, or outpatient; they’ve had people successfully do all three.
If anyone has ANYTHING to share about their UNC treatment, please do. I know that their founder, ****, is a huge rockstar in the eating disorder treatment and research world.
Thank you. My disease (diagnosis anorexia nervosa, binge/purge subtype, not that that is really of import here) is going bonkers right now–you know how it is–but it’s time to surrender to more help again.
Has anyone been here recently? I’m currently in contact admissions, contemplating the possibility.
2018 Summer Review
I came to UNC two years ago and returned this year after having a pretty good overall experience compared to other programs. A lot of things have changed since then though. Unfortunately there are no longer any Starbucks trips on the weekends which sucks. They also only have ONE fresh air break on Saturdays and not on Sundays anymore. They also no longer allow any coffee/tea during any snacks and you cannot order any hot foods for snack (ex: oatmeal, or anything that needs heating). The food for meals is reheated but you’re lucky if you get hot food. Staff remains one of the most positive things about the program in my opinion. The nurses are very caring and understanding. Hopefully since the php shut down the ip program will integrate more of a step down or level system to allow more practice and transition upon discharge.
Can someone please post an update on what meals are like, food choices, groups are like, schedule, therapy sessions per week, dietician sessions per week, outings, fresh air, levels, etc.?
Can someone provide an update on what it is like currently on the IP unit?
I am surprised to hear that they reduced their beds on the inpatient unit. I was in the PHP program there in early 2014. It was a waste of time and $$. I am a 50+ adult. They used the partial program as a step down for the inpatient program. And mixed very young adolescents with adults. It made group therapy useless as I had no intention of discussing my adult issues with 14 year olds. I needed individual therapy. I only got like three therapy session over my entire time there. I would have been much better off staying home. I watched them discharge multiple people that were not really ready and then try to keep others in the program that would have been better off getting care elsewhere.
I have heard the inpatient program is a good program for people that are in a medically compromised position. If you are just struggling and looking for support to get on with recovery do not go to UNC.
UNC Chapel Hill reduced their capacity Fall 2015 from 10 to 6 beds.
In the last month, June 2016, they have discontinued treating adults over the age of 25.
Sadly. This leaves no affordable options for those who have NC Medicaid, whether primary or secondary. This will impact VA residents as well because they accepted VA Medicaid.
The program was pretty off the mark for the needs of adult patients, so it seems like a wise decision to no longer attempt to provide services they were not equipped to offer via evidence-based practices and interventions.
It remains a decent & viable option for teens and young adults, as it is grounded in a privileges / rewards system and incorporates FBT. However, control – punishments – rewards – level systems – token economies simply aren’t grounded in science for the adult patient.
Had you been to treatment before?
What did you learn while there that is still helpful today?
Is the PHP program heavily grounded in RT and OT?
DID YOU GET TO HAVE PASSES LIKE GOING TO THE CAFETERIA?
We’re there any outings to restaurants or grocery stores?
What kinds of things did you make in cooking group? Meals or snacks?
Do you remember any of the menu options?
Thanks!
How do these programs interact with the patient’s family? (for minors) Are parents involved in therapy process, allowed to visit etc.?
Can anyone tell me how much SECU for info on housing is for low income patients doing PHP? Medicare/Medicaid
How much does SECU for info on housing cost if you do PHP and have low income. Medicare/Medicaid.
Can anyone give me a recent review? What is the discharge weight? 78% or 85%. I’ll be coming in from out of state. Do they let you stay IP until 100% If you can only do IP? I won’t be able to afford outside living expenses on top of paying PHP or IOP.
Any recent reviews for from adults please.
Anybody been at UNC recently? If so, what insurance do you have?
Anyone have recent feedback on their inpatient stay? I know the staff has changed recently and I would like to know more. Thank you!
Any 50 or older women out there who have experienced this program and would you recommend it?
I personally had a horrible experience at UNC. The staff was not helpful, and they were more concerned about you triggering other patients than they were about helping you. Some of the patients were very bad tempered, and picked fights a lot with you about your behaviors or just to start drama. I personally was yelled at quite a few times by various patients. I think they should have done a better job dividing children from adults, and nurses would have “community meetings” which basically didn’t do shit besides allow you to talk smack about other patients. It was extremely boring, not helpful, and you were expected to always hold it together which I thought defeated the whole purpose of being there.
I was there from the beginning of July to the end of August 2013. I DO NOT recommend. If you are very medically unstable and this is your only option, then by all means. But if you are looking for a program that offers support towards you and getting you back to normalized eating and the outside world, do not check into this program.
Any recent reviews?
interested in current review of ip
any current reviews, please?
Old Reviews (2012 and Earlier)
2011
I wouldn’t call partial strict, but it is challenging. It is very structured though, but not in a bad way. It’s good to be busy in my opinion,
A typical day starts at 8:00 with weights(M-W-F) and vitals(M-Th), then breakfast around 8:30. You have 35 minutes to complete meals, They are pretty strict with this. Adolescents go to school from 9-11, adults have free time then a group at 10:00. There is another group at 11, usually CBT or DBT. Lunch is around 12. More groups, snack at 3:00. More groups and dinner is around 5:00. After that is free time until you leave at 6:30. Monday has cooking group. You cook dinner to eat that night. Thursday there is an outing. Usually you go out to lunch, go to the mall and try on clothes or something low key like going bowling.
You earn privileges as you progress in the program , like having breakfast at home or getting days off.
As far as treating bulimia, they do a decent job of it. You have to be escorted to the bathroom for an hour after meals and snack and if they think you are really struggling they will make you have an escort all day, The tough part for bulimics is that you have your evenings and weekends free and that can prove to be a challenge to get through. Earning privileges is dependent on having successful weekends so that helps to provide some incentive to refrain from b/p.
The program does work better for those with anorexia, but I have anorexia, with b/p and I was successful in their partial program. I was motivated by privileges and just wanting to be discharged as I usually have had a long stay in inpatient and was just ready to be done with treatment,
I would say that the average stay in partial is 4-6 weeks, I have seen people leave after 2 weeks and others stay much longer. They like you to reach a BMI of 19.5 to 20.0 before being discharged. I never reached that and got discharged though, because I was doing well.
When were you there: Most recently – almost exactly one month, March-April 2009
Describe the average day: wake up, vitals, breakfast, rounds (see doctors) and 1:1 therapist meetings and individual mtgs with whole team on Wednesdays, string of groups, lunch, relaxation therapy, group, PM snack, string of groups, dinner, obs and vitals, HS snack, nursing group/goals group, free time until bed.
What were meals like? It really depends on the group you’re with. The girls I was with this time were really upbeat and positive, for the most part. There was tension at times, but several of us were pretty good at relieving it. We’d listen to Mix 101.5 (radio station) while we ate and the nurses would supervise and keep conversation going. Food talk is absolutely not allowed and if the nurses catch you at it they’ll say “butterflies,” which basically means STFU. The meal room is pretty nice, in my opinion. Lots of patients, including myself, donated some art to post on the walls, and people continue to add to it after Art Therapy on Wednesday nights, etc. At HS snack and both PM and HS on weekends, we’re allowed to drink decaf hot tea or extra decaf coffee. (You could order plain black decaf tea or coffee with meals, but there were flavored herbal and fruit teas during snack.)
What sorts of food were available or served? It was “hospital food,” but surprisingly good. You learned very quickly what NOT to get…eg, the quesadillas. But for the most part, whatever you ordered was going to be awesome. Downside to the fact that it IS hospital food is that the menus pretty much rotated every other day. You have to choose one Chef’s Specialty (higher-cal “challenge” food) per day and it couldn’t be at breakfast. Most people learned once they got to higher exchanges to choose higher-cal stuff anyway to work on volumetrics, etc. You also have to hit an individualized fluid goal for each day. There are upper and lower bounds, to accommodate both fluid restrictors and overloaders.
Did they supplement? How did that system work? Yes. CIB Plus, and it’d be supplemented at MORE than the original exchanges were worth. (UNC operates on the ADA exchange system, not calories. So foods can be 2 starch, 1 protein, 1 fat etc.) Generally, skipping a meal = 2.5 CIB.
What privileges are allowed? They’re allowed on a level system, but basically: passes (on-unit, off-unit, off-grounds), shorter obs time, decaf coffee from coffee shop, fresh air breaks, unobserved bathroom, menu planning, etc. For off-unit passes, you have to be at least 60% IBW, and if you’re below 65% and you go off-unit to family group or anything you have to be in a wheelchair. (Usually below 60% you have to be in a w/c on-unit as well, but that’s not enforced unless you’re medically unstable or pass out while on unit at whatever weight.)
Does it work on a level system? Yes, there are four levels. Everyone enters on Orientation. At Awareness, you can choose your own meals, go on short nonfood or snack off-unit passes (weight-dependent), and on-unit family meals. On Practice, you can go to the coffee shop with a nurse on Mon/Wed/Fri mornings and get a decaf coffee, have longer passes and meal passes off-unit…. On Transition, you can have more passes and one four-hour off-grounds pass/week, unobserved bathroom, 30-minute obs after dinner (as opposed to hour-long), two unobserved meals/week in dayroom, and any other privileges you can think of if you apply for them to the team. To get on the next level you have to eat and drink 100% (for 48 hrs to get on Awareness, 7 days to get on others), meet weight goals, and fill out some pages in the binder as well as do Behavioral Chain Analyses and Challenging Auto Thoughts worksheets and ED-related presentations. Most people never go to Transition because they’re discharged first (IP only keeps you until 75% IBW) but to get on Transition, anyway, you have to be at least 70% IBW.
What sort of groups do they have? Groups include CBT, DBT, Spirituality, Art Therapy, RT, OT, Cooking Group, and the two new groups: Reconditioning and Gratitude Group. Reconditioning is basically progressive reintroduction to stretching and exercise, whereas Gratitude Group is a Saturday nurse-led group that is…pretty much what it says it is. To do Cooking Group, you have to be 60% IBW and above the age of 18. On Thursdays, patients from both partial and IP meet with all of the patients’ parents in the OT room downstairs for a giant family group. Beforehand, you can have dinner with your family on-unit if you like.
What was your favorite group? OT, definitely! The leaders are AWESOME and the groups were pretty creative at times.
What did you like the most? The support of the staff. The nurses are all really nice. Some of them have bad/bitchy reputations, but I did a “social experiment” on one of them (I HATED her) and learned that she could actually be pretty cool and was beast at Boggle. And the ones that call you out usually do so because they give a shit about you and want you to get better…and have no problem being bluntly honest.
What did you like the least? The fact that the unit is so small, the fact that IP discharges you at 75% to PHP or OP. Also, weekends are boring as SHIT.
Would you recommend this program? DEFINITELY. I would have say “ehh, sure” before this most recent time in IP, but I really put in a lot of effort this time and it paid off. I feel like I’ve made enormous progress in IP alone, and it’s the weight-gain program, not even brain-fix! (That’s PHP.) Note: it caters more toward anorexia than bulimia, and a lot of the programming is designed to accommodate low-weight patients. (Bit obvious, given the fact that they discharge at 75%, haha.) But sometimes that can be triggering…especially the fact that many/most of the girls in there are very emaciated. It really shows you that no matter how bad you are, there is someone a thousand times worse. For some people, this is reassuring and gives them more motivation. For others, it’s triggering. Think carefully about how you’d handle that sort of situation before you go. I will say, though, that after a couple of days I got pretty desensitized to the other patients and a bit blind to their bodies/weights. But everyone’s different.
What level of activity or exercise was allowed? Stretching only and brief fresh-air breaks on weekends and sometimes on weekdays with OT.
What did people do on weekends? HA. Weekends are SOOOO boring. I think the point is to get you to manage free time productively, but all it really accomplishes is making most people spend all their time either sleeping, watching TV, or playing board games. I got really close to my roommate, though, and we spent the weekends pushing each other down the hall in wheelchairs really fast, jumping on the air-flow mattress beds (typical hospital beds that have pressure adjusters so they move during the night according to weight distribution to make you more comfortable), singing Broadway songs to my iPod, drawing caricatures of the staff, playing pranks…. You can definitely MAKE it not-boring, but…it can be hard.
Do you get to know your weight? Yep, unless you’re a minor and your parents say you can’t. You can, duh, request to have blinds if you want.
How fast is the weight gain process? 2-4 lbs/week.
What was the average length of stay? Until you reach 75% IBW. I’d say the average is maybe…two weeks? I stayed for a month, and I knew one patient who had been there for three months. There is variety, though, depending on the diversity of patients.
What was the average age range? Anywhere from twelve-ish to sixties. They have taken patients below twelve before, but usually when they’re severely medically-compromised. Otherwise they stay in the child unit. Patients who are…er, old…usually stay in gero.
What kind of aftercare do they provide? Do they help you set up an OP treatment team? Yep! UNC provides PHP and a full OP team (psychiatrist/med doctor, psychologist, nutritionist, and your case is discussed with a full team that you don’t necessarily meet every week). If you aren’t in town, they can also help you set something up where you live.
How many IP beds? How many patients in PHP or IOP? 10 IP beds. PHP holds 12, but that’s another review. Oh! And if you’re out of town, you can stay at the Ronald McDonald House if you’re 18 or under and at the SECU Family House if you’re above 18.
I am here at UNC right now, and it SUCKS. I can answer a few of your questions.
No laptops or cell phones allowed. There is a ton of free time. There is one main dietician. You don’t really meet with her individually… you just do a lot of menu planning. There are fresh air breaks on Saturday and Sunday. The doctors are okay. As far as I know, they do not accomodate many food intolerances. You get to pick your meals from a menu each day. The weight gain is like 1.5-3 KILOGRAMS a week. You cannot smoke. You don’t leave the unit at all until you get to a certain level. Eventually you can leave the hospital grounds, but that takes a long time. There as a hospital chapel service on Sundays. No caffeine is allowed ever. You can’t bring anything with glass (like makeup), shoelaces, hoodies or pants with drawstrings, razors, etc…
I would wholeheartedly recommend a different program.